38 - Inside Nike History: Untold Stories and Design Innovations with Scott Reames

Discover the untold stories and behind-the-scenes insights of the iconic Nike brand as we sit down with Scott Reems, a retired Nike historian who spent nearly three decades preserving the company's rich history. Join us on this captivating journey as Scott shares his family's connection to the shoe business and how it led him to his role at Nike.

In this episode, we dive deep into the impact of Scott's work in capturing the stories of those involved in Nike's history, from its earliest days to its present-day success. Learn how he created an intranet site to make Nike's materials accessible to their global population and used reunions as a model for crafting stories that transcend borders. Explore the rise of the Jordan brand, the process of selecting college basketball players to join the Jordan family, and the importance of preserving Nike's history for future generations.

Join us as Scott shares the incredible tale of reuniting the four people who created the Nike name and swoosh, capturing their stories on film for the first time. We also delve into the design innovations of Nike, from the groundbreaking Nike shocks and Presto to the rise of the Jordan brand and the process of selecting college basketball players to be part of the Jordan family. Plus, Scott reveals his involvement in aiding Phil Knight with his memoir, "Shoe Dog," and the crucial role of marketing and advertising in Nike's success.

Tune In as we discuss his journey as a Nike Historian on The Groundbreakin Podcast

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Transcript

Q: 0:15

Hi, this is your host, Q live in direct from Syqi Studio Kochi. Hope you all are having a good time. Welcome to the Groundrea kin, where we sit down with creatives, design and business pioneers to discuss their journeys, process and approach. If you are listening to this podcast for the first time, consider subscribing. Also, check out our website. We are working on a newsletter and a slowly growing design community on Discord, where we have weekly design live sessions every Saturday where we learn something new.

Q: 0:43

For this episode, we sat down with Scott Reams, a retired Nike historian who spent nearly 3 decades uncovering and preserving the rich history of the world famous company. From his family's connection to the shoe business to his own journey of falling in love with Oregon and landing a job at Nike. Scott gives us an exclusive look into the brand's evolution. Scott shares the incredible tale of reuniting the four people who created the Nike name and the swoosh, capturing their stories on film for the first time. We also delve into the design innovations of Nike, from the ground baking, nike shocks and presto to the rise of the Jordan brand and the process of selecting college basketball players to be part of the Jordan family. We also talked about his involvement in assisting Phil Knight's famous book shoot off and the crucial role of advertising in Nike's success. Hi Scott, how's it going with you?

Scott: 1:54

Fine, how are you doing?

Q: 1:57

Yeah, doing great. First of all, it's an honor to have you on the podcast. What part of the world you're in?

Scott: 2:05

I am in a little suburb just outside of Portland Oregon.

Q: 2:08

All right, how's it going with you? What's so it's happening?

Scott: 2:13

Well, i've been retired for a year and a half now and I'm kind of getting good at it. So you know I've got a busy day today of planting a couple plants, walking the dog, my go to the grocery store, you know just all the rough and tumble stuff that the retired people have to do.

Q: 2:26

Okay, this is how your usual day looks like.

Scott: 2:30

Oh, they kind of differ. Sometimes I get up, it's nice, i play golf. Sometimes I got a list of things my wife wants me to do. She still works at Nike, so she gives me a few honeydews, we call them just to get out. Honey, do this honey, do that.

Q: 2:44

Oh wow, i mean like what kind of job she has at Nike.

Scott: 2:49

She's a senior executive assistant, so she helps. She basically is the assistant to one of the senior leaders of the company.

Q: 2:57

So is it? I mean, your association with Nike has something to do with her being in Nike, or it's just?

Scott: 3:03

No, Well, indirectly, I mean, we didn't meet at Nike. I was there for almost 30 years and she's been there for close to 10. It was just one of those things where she somebody, a mutual person. we knew I was looking to bring an event person and my wife was an event background, and so she hired her to do the event. So then she did that for a few years and decided to move into more of an administrative role.

Q: 3:28

Wow. So I mean, let's talk about your profession, scott. I mean Nike historian. What is it, and how many Nike historians are there? I'm just curious about the whole. You know this game. I never knew that such people exist out there, so very excited. Do you know what we want to talk about?

Scott: 3:49

Well, it was definitely another radar, because the archives, nike's archive department, or DNA, is. We call it the Python department of Nike archives. It only focuses inward, it's only for employees. We don't really I guess I should stop saying we. They don't communicate directly to the outside world very often. That seems to be changing a little bit recently, but for the most part our clientele was always employees and only rarely did we ever work with media or externally, and that was only with the approval and the guidance of Nike communications, et cetera.

Scott: 4:22

So there were a lot of people when I first started posting on LinkedIn who had that same reaction, like I had no idea Nike had in the story and I had no idea Nike had an archive. So how many are there? Well, there was only one. I mean, i started the role, i created the role in 2004 and into 2005, over the next 16, 17 years, i was able to hire people who take on a similar role, who will either curate or research or tell stories. When I retired, there were seven people reporting to me. So they're not all quote unquote historians, but they play that similar role.

Q: 5:02

And so when did this Nike archive thing happen?

Scott: 5:07

The archive itself actually began in the late 1970s. It was pretty rudimentary. It was a lot of people bringing stuff over and keeping it there. There was some curation, but it was not the level that there is today. And then it's the company when the company went public in 1980, then a whole new layer of archiving had to happen. There's a lot of legal documents and things that companies, public health companies have to hold on to. So there became multifacets to the archives.

Scott: 5:41

And then over the decades, when we reached the 1990s, that's when we started opening up Nike towns around the country and around the world And Nike retail stores had a lot of memorabilia in them. So that had to be stored and to be gathered, stored in. The stories behind them had to be captured. And then the Nike campus also opened in 1990, the World Campus outside of Beaverton, oregon, and there was a lot of displays and archival materials and athlete materials. So it just if you grew organically over time, the archives and its reach grew. And then the we're DNA.

Scott: 6:21

When that really kicked in in the mid-2005, 2006 area was when they added MyRole And they added the story gathering, storytelling. So for the most part up to that point we just people would drop things off and say here's this and here's its story, and they'd say thank you and enter that data. But it was all very one note, one person's perspective, and there was no real fact checking per se. So that was the component that I brought and then my team brought was to weave together and double check and verify And, if possible, wherever possible, interview multiple people that worked on a particular shoe or an event and get their perspectives So we'd have a deeper and richer and usually more accurate story.

Q: 7:10

Wow, i'm just curious about the time where you were digging in and trying to get all the information. What was your process, the kind of process you were following, because, as you said, a lot of the details were kind of blurry. So how was you making sure that, and did you already had a number of resources to get what you want? Or and I'm sure there was a lot of interviewing was involved as well.

Scott: 7:37

It was a lot of that. It was a little bit of a. It's hard to think now how we were thinking about all this. I mean, there were several aspects to it. So previous timelines had existed since the 1980s People as early as 10 years after the company was founded in 1972, somebody created a timeline. So that was very helpful, until as I dug more into it, i found out that many or several of the entries on the timeline were wrong, either a little bit wrong or actually really wrong. So that worried me. And then there was also the just the time factor. Right, people have expiration dates, you know.

Scott: 8:15

So there was a tendency to want to go back to the earliest days of the company's first, chronologically, just capture the company history, because some of the folks who were instrumental in starting the company were reaching the 60s, 70s, 80s, and even folks like Bill Bowerman, our co-founder, had passed away in 1999. So there was a sense of urgency there to reach out to many of these early voices and make sure we had them. So it was a little bit of art, a little bit of science. We didn't I didn't have an agenda in terms of I wasn't working for design, i wasn't working for marketing. I was actually working for a group called Corporate Services And that's somewhat of a the name that they used to give to the folks that basically ran the Nike World Campus. So it's like the facilities, people, the maintenance people, the sports centers, childcare, that kind of thing. So it was great because I didn't have, i wasn't being directed to go do the history of this, go, do the history of that. So I had a lot more freedom to essentially lay out what I thought would be the best way to go.

Scott: 9:24

And then part of it, honestly, was taking the story that we did know and did have and identifying who the people were. If you're gonna talk about this shoe or that event, what people worked on it, and do we know where they are? Do they still work for Nike? If they don't work for Nike, does anybody have their phone number? And then it was mapping out an outline of okay, well, these are the seminal stories of 1960s and 1970s. These are the people we've identified as being the ones who can flesh out those stories, and then let's reach out to them.

Scott: 10:00

And that's what I did for the first four or five years was just continually get opportunities to interview people and fill in some bowls, and then I started going down to some rabbit holes. You talk to one person and he'd say, oh, you know, you really should talk to him, and so on and so on, and I'd be like, oh, never met that person. And then I reached that person and they told me some amazing stories that I didn't even know about, right. So it was a little bit of discovery, a little bit of planning, but then being flexible enough to hear that if somebody comes up with something, you're like, whoa, i didn't know, you work on that.

Q: 10:33

Wow, and so how were you documenting it? I mean, were you, like you, always had like a notebook around you, or I'm sure, yeah, as you mentioned that you had a team to do that, so, and how much we can access it? Or was it the? what was the agenda moving forward when you left Nike?

Scott: 10:54

Well, the first, what I would have loved to have done in the earlier days would have one of these, you know, have an iPhone or a camera and be able to record things very much and on a high quality level. Back in the 2004 to 2010 era, roughly, i had this little tiny, almost like flashlight or handheld little microphone And I would keep it up against the phone where I would put it on a desk because I was talking to people, because I didn't have a budget to do full on camera crew And, frankly, sometimes the interviews just weren't that fruitful, right, i mean, you'd say, oh, you really should talk to Joe, you know, and then Joe would sit down and I'd interview Joe for an hour and a half and I'd come away with, maybe you know, two nuggets, two you know, and then I'd get to talk to Marianne Okay, i'll talk to Marianne and she would go on and give me like two hours, which was just amazing goal. So I did this a lot of times. I didn't know who I was even talking to, just generally I didn't, and so I at the very least recorded the audio And then I had a transcriptionist who would go through a transcribe things for me, so then I could go back and circle the nuggets, if you will, or the great quotes, and that was it for the first few years was just that level of capture. As we move into the 10, 2000 teams and I started having a staff and we started getting more muscle behind us, if you will. Then I had a more budget as well, and so I was able to use cameras more often. Like the recording devices became higher quality, and then again, when the iPhone came along, it made things dramatically easier, because now, like you can record audio, you can record video and some of the later iPhones, and so that was a game changer for us because it was inexpensive but much better quality, probably.

Scott: 12:37

For me, it all came to a head in 2011,. Right before that was the 40th anniversary of the Nike Solution and the name Nike. They were both created in 1971. So I was preparing to do something to mark the occasion the 40th anniversary, big deal. So I found out that Jeff Johnson, who was Nike's first full-time employee and who was the person who created the name Nike or coined the name Nike he was gonna be in town in Portland from his home in New Hampshire And Bob Waddell, who was employee number four. Then he would also been involved in the choosing and selecting of the name Nike, and the swoosh lives in bed, which is a central Oregon, it's about two and a half hours from here And he was gonna be in Portland. So then I thought, oh wow, i got both of these guys coming to town And I reached out to Phil Knight in his office and he would make himself available to sit down with the three of them. So then I thought, well, why not give it a shot? And I called Farrell Davidson, the designer of the swoosh, who was retired but lived in Portland, and the plan that's aligned. It was amazing. All four of them were available at the same time.

Scott: 13:44

So I brought them all into a studio on the Nike campus. I hired a camera crew and I hired like one camera crew or one camera for each of the four and then a fifth camera to capture them just in the room itself. And I'm not kidding you, for the next two hours it was like I was like a kid in a candy store. I was asking them questions and captured all in high quality film and ask and saying I even joke that when we got started I said no one is leaving this room until we can all agree on the same story about how the swoosh and how the name Nike came to be. And they all laughed. Well, i was like I was happily serious. You know, it's like I'm not gonna miss this opportunity. So, again, two hours go by, they're telling some amazing stories, they're correcting each other, which was fabulous, because that's what I needed, because I don't know. I mean everything I've learned the second hand.

Scott: 14:31

These guys, these four, were in the room. They were literally the people that came up with the swoosh and the name Nike. So we got some amazing footage and about those stories and others. And then, as they were leaving I think it was Carol and Romain and one of the other said to me you know, this is the first time that the four of us have actually all been together in the same room since the day that they chose, and we chose Nike and the swoosh, and I was like I got goosebumps. I was like I'm blown away. So that day, the reason I'm bringing that all up that day really to me crystallized and became like the. That was like Nike, or the DNAs coming out, if you will, because that was such a powerful moment and material that we brought up captured. Thankfully, all four of them are still alive. It's still with us, but we were now safe and that we had. We captured the stories, we had this.

Scott: 15:26

It wasn't just me telling what somebody told me, it was them, the people who did it, telling their remembrances and also reacting to each other. Again, it's one of those videos that I wish I could show publicly, and maybe someday Nike will do that. But internally, i can tell you it's a very powerful thing. A lot of employees when they see it, they're blown away because they're again. It's literally here in Carolyn talking about the solutions, jeff talking about how he came up with the name Nike and even funnier, or more so, it's more humanizing, because you even see Jeff and Bob on camera arguing with each other, which they did a lot, and Bob is basically telling Jeff the way he remembered the way that the name Nike came about is wrong and that Jeff remembered it in a different way. And Jeff's like you're telling me how I came up with something. Would I be the one that would know that? But again, that was like so much about their relationship. They argued good, naturally, they argued a lot, and now you're seeing it and hearing it, and so it's again.

Scott: 16:25

You can tell the stories about these folks, but now you're seeing it and they're with your own two eyes and you're hearing them in their voices, and that was somewhat of the tone setter for us going forward And we tried to find. Every time an opportunity we look for is where can we find people to put together to stir the pot, if you will? It's like going to Eistler reunion or college reunion. You go in there with some memories and then you see some people who have similar memories and by the end of the evening you can sort of remember way more things about those days than you could on your own. And that's frankly my reason, i think, why reunions exist.

Q: 17:02

Well, i mean, that must have been an amazing experience, scott. So only I mean, through this material you're talking about, only employees can access it. I'm just curious to know about that, or what is it for? I mean, is it like there's an archive where I can put myself into and can grab whatever, Or what is it?

Scott: 17:24

Right. So the archives, yes, they are definitely a resource for employees. So, yes, video like that is accessible on an intranet site that anybody with a Nike user ID and password can view, and that's been great. I mean, originally, when we first started, the building was just in an undisclosed location in Beaverton and only a handful of people knew about it, and only the people that lived in the Oregon area would ever even have a chance to come over and see it. And, of course, we have thousands, tens of thousands of employees around the world. So creating that intranet site I think it's been over 10 years now was also a game changer in terms of of being able to reach out and make our materials accessible to the global Nike population.

Scott: 18:11

It also challenged us because a lot of our stuff was US centered, so we had to be more diligent about reaching out about the Indian cricket team and all the European football teams, so we had base a little bit of information there, but we didn't have a lot. Again, even with floorfives and I mentioned seven people there's still not a lot of people who gather stories from a global company that involved in so many different sports. But we just did our best to expand as we could. We knew World Cup was gonna come up every four years. We knew, obviously, olympics as well. So some sports, some storytelling elevated, and we knew we had to be at the top of our game. And definitely Olympics is, for sure, probably the pinnacle because it's multi-sport. I mean football, fifa, world Cup is important, but it's just football, so you don't have to worry about trying to get a hold of people involved in making products for all these other different sports. So when we when the Olympics roll around every four years, that's when DNA really put them pedal to the metal and had to come up with a lot of new stories.

Scott: 19:20

Again, they wanna hear what happened in 76 and 80 and 84, but they also wanna know what was the outcome of Rio, what was, what did we learn from London, et cetera. And so there had and we wanted to be fresh right, we didn't wanna just have the same old, like wheeling out the same stuff from 30 years ago, 28 years ago, and then, now that things history is repeating itself, we'll go. The Olympics are coming back to Los Angeles in 1928, nike's Olympic experience in 1984 in Los Angeles was game changing for the company. So there's gonna be a great amount of interest in what did Nike do in LA in 84? And I'm hoping or at least I was hoping and I'm still hoping that that is infused in some way into whatever Nike does in Los Angeles in 2028. But that would be an amazing continuum to find ways to make what happened before relevant today.

Q: 20:12

Yeah, yeah, for sure. I think you talked about Nike, as they're associating with the Indian cricket. I think they have been the longest good sponsor for the Indian cricket team And, yeah, absolutely love their kids. So let's talk about you, scott. I've learned that you belong to the third generation as shoe salesman, if I'm not getting that wrong.

Scott: 20:41

That's sale. Well, third generation, it's kind of a term internally called shoe dog. That's why Phil chose that term for his book. So my grandfather, my mother's father, was on the shoe store in East St Louis in the 1930s and, i think, early 1940s And then sold that and moved into Brown's shoe company, which is also based in St Louis. That's Buster Brown's shoes. They're still around but they don't really have the heyday that they did back then. And then my father ended up getting a job also at Brown's shoe company. So my grandfather was in imports and exports for the exports business And my father was a salesman He traveled from.

Scott: 21:19

We traveled all over. We were living in St Louis, in Rochester, new York and then Richmond, virginia, and my dad would have those territories to sell shoes. And of course back in the 60s that was literally traveling with a set of samples in a case and showing up at this retail store, that mom and pop store, with the different samples and then trying to sell them shoes. So we traveled quite a bit. And then in 1976, he was recruited away from Brownshire, coming by a small company in Eugene, oregon called Osaga, and Osaga had a parallel life to Nike for about five or six, seven years, but unfortunately it differed by the dad, did not have the same meteoric rise that Nike did and it somewhat fizzled out.

Scott: 22:07

But by that time I'd fallen in love with Eugene and Oregon and went to University of Oregon, met my wife. We got married and then started looking for work within the Portland area and was offered a job at Nike. So yeah, so indirectly, it wasn't, like I specifically said, because I was a kid and I saw footwear all the time. I wanted to be in footwear but I wanted to be in Nike. I mean, if you live in Portland and you're into sports, you can get to any better than Nike. So that was my goal And thankfully I got the job in 1992 in the marketing department.

Q: 22:47

Wow, that's insane, scott. So I'm sure that that's the very reason that you are a Nike historian. I'm sure because since you were a kid, you saw that shoe culture. What was the design of? what was there in the 40s and 50s? What kind of shoes did you use to have? There was a fashion trend there, or was it a utility thing?

Scott: 23:15

In sports shoes or just shoes in general.

Q: 23:17

Just shoes in general, and even about sports shoes, because even when we see old videos, we see very simple shoes and I don't know if they had certain kind of rules and regulations in terms of the kind of shoes they were using. Like right now, sports are banning a specific kind of shoes because it's elevate, a certain skill set. So how was the scene back then? And also, do you think Nike has revolutionized the whole system?

Scott: 23:50

Well, i'm not a footwear historian as much as Nike, so I do know a lot. I know in the early days of just general footwear it was a lot of dress shoes or there were basically brown leather shoes or maybe some black, but they still really haven't changed off that much in a way for executives to wear. There are people that have been business out of a business footwear. And then the athletic wear was more canvas, chuck Taylor, converse type of thing. Adidas had some running shoes and some rudimentary other shoes basketball and soccer shoes but there wasn't. They weren't really specifically designed for anything beyond simple sport activity, maybe a little more flexible, a little more motion. You can't wear a stiff leather shoe and play basketball. But then you think about some of the Converse shoes and they weren't exactly efficient. They were kind of like planks with canvas top. So when Nike came along and first it's precursor, blue ribbon sports in the 60s, they started and the whole idea was that Bill Bowerman had some thoughts about how he could improve a running shoe, how to make a better running shoe, and he certainly had the wear with all because he was the track coach at the University of Oregon. So his thoughts were listened to but for his frustration they weren't being listened to by folks like Adidas and Pluma and other companies that he approached with his design ideas. So he'd basically send them a note back saying thanks for your interest. Here's where you can buy our product in the United States. And so Bill started thinking with his own ideas.

Scott: 25:45

And it wasn't until Bill Knight, his former student, former runner on his team, came knocking with some sample shoes that he'd gotten from Nitsuka in Kobe, japan, in 1962. He got the samples. He didn't get the samples in his possession for the year. Anyway, he came to Bill looking for an endorsement, right Looking to get the University of Oregon to wear Tiger brand running shoes, because he thought Phil thought that would be a great marketing tool for him. But what he didn't know was that Bill had had this experience for the past few years not being able to get his design ideas to a footwear manufacturer. So along behold, the Knight shows on his door, not only with some shoes but basically now with a conduit or an access point to a footwear manufacturer in Japan. So Bill immediately seized on this as more of a disopter, to get a discount on shoes but to get his design ideas into the hands of footwear designers in Japan And that's what led to the partnership in 1964 between Phil and Bill and the creation of Blue Ribbon Sports.

Scott: 26:51

So now you've got a company in Japan knows how to make running shoes. You've got a math scientist, if you will, in Oregon who's got ideas, and so Bill started sending his ideas and his suggestions to the designers in the Nessica, which they incorporated, and again, you probably don't have all the data talk about this. But long story short, the University of Oregon runners that Bill had test ram some of these shoes that Bill would tinker with them and send the notes back to Japan. They would make the changes And all that interaction ultimately led to shoes like the Cortez in the Boston and some like footwear. And that was when Nike. So that was like the epiphany that there was a ability to build shoes that were specific for running, which then it's farmed out into basketball and tennis As Nike grew into other sports, and they took that same mindset and developed shoes for different sports.

Q: 27:51

Yeah, yeah, i think I think there were also some conflicts between on its hookah and Nike, i think after a certain point of time. so how is what? like you know from the book, i couldn't really understand the. who was the you know, main culprit with that conflict? I mean, in the end, nike won the case, if I'm not wrong.

Scott: 28:11

But we've only won the case. I wouldn't be here today, i'd be here with not talking to you. Yeah, so they had three year contracts that on itsica and blue ribbon sports signed, and for a while the growth of businesses was growing, everything was getting, was fine And the company started off fell night originally negotiated the western 13, westerns, united States when he did the first contract And then when they renewed the contract it was exclusive for the entire United States And by the third contract in late sixties. Now there was some unease, i think, on the amnesty part, and again I'm only getting from the Nike perspective, so it could be a little bit skewed, but there was some ease that Nike or the part of the blue ribbon sports was becoming a little too powerful And they wanted to look for multiple distributors in the United States, of breakups of monopoly, if you will, and of course now that would not benefit blue ribbon sports in any way, shape or form. So while on itsica apparently was planning to reach, or at least to be prepared to change the contract when it expired, so might that winded. That That's all. That's all laid out in the shoe dog. He learned that they were planning to do this, so he realized that if blue ribbon sports was going to be successful in the long term, it would need really needed to stop me kind of being a distributor for another brand and to instead own and distribute it's a brand that it created And that's what led to when, in the 1971 creation of this that was now known as the swoosh, the purchasing of some soccer football shoes from a Mexican, a manufacturing company, then that, shoe for shoe, was called the Nike.

Scott: 29:58

So that's where the that's where Nike and the swoosh came in the gene gene of 1971. And that was still all. The contract was in place. Technically, nike pardon me, blue ribbon sports wasn't breaking the contract yet, because the contract said that night that blue ribbon sports could not create its own running shoe. So that's why it's a soccer shoe, that's why you went a lot of money making bets. So the first Nike shoe is not a running shoe. It always surprises people. They find it was a soccer cleat.

Scott: 30:24

So by this time, then, the brand is starting, nike's blue ribbon sports is starting to think that the Nike brand might have some, some opportunities of legs, if you will. And so both sides, essentially, are starting to chip away at, if not breach or broach the contract And then ultimately, in 72, onitska sent a letter on May 1 to Phil Knight saying that they were discontinuing all product, that there would be no more product shipped to them And they wanted all the money that was owed to them. So essentially that ended the relationship. That's why Nike celebrates May 1, 1972 as its birth, if you will. Well, i didn't know about that. Yes, i had to work quite a bit, with no iron-lower, working on a shoe dog, to get a specific date, because they always kept referring to the 1972 as the start of Nike And I said but blue ribbon sports started in 1964 and he didn't incorporate as Nike Inc until 1978. So why is 1972?

Scott: 31:24

And sometimes Phil would say, oh, it's because the Olympic trials that year. Another time he'd say, well, it was at the NSGA trade show in February of 1972. Like, well, you can't have, like, several birthdays, right? Or you can't have a birthday the last 10 days, like the trials. What is the day? When do you celebrate? When do we turn 50? You know?

Scott: 31:45

So while we were working on, while he was working on a shoe dog, and I was hoping I found that letter when I mentioned that letter to him about when NSGA cut them off And he looked pensive for a moment. He goes. You know that actually, that actually was our what I would consider our independence day, because from that day forward the Nike brand of the swoosh had just be successful. It's not. We couldn't rely on Tiger anymore And I said, so you're saying that's our independence day. That sounds like the day we were founded. Because, yeah, it makes sense. It makes sense to me. So I said, please put that in your book. And thankfully you did And I finally had people. I basically said, well, it's made first. Well, that's not what I heard Like, well, it's in shoe dog. So I was like, ah, i got you there. But anyways, as you pointed out, yes.

Scott: 32:28

So after that the two sides filed suit against each other.

Scott: 32:33

It took two years for it to be resolved, in July of 1974. And thankfully for us, the judge the judge is sort of a mixed ruling. The judge said it was impossible to identify which company owned the designs because it had been so symbiotic, so integrated. But the judge clearly ruled that Nike I guess I can go on, nike now starting to become people I started up with was Nike had done the marketing and owned the rights to the names, so it could become the Nike Cortez, the Nike Boston, and then on its head to change the names of their models too. But the models are exactly the same, but they couldn't advertise them as to Tiger Cortez anymore. So I think we won in terms of they had to pay the legal fees, which you know that's not insubstantial back then. So, yeah, by 1974, with that behind everybody, then the Oregon Waffle comes out and the Waffle trainer you know. So there's like a whole new influx of design coming out from Bill Barnum, and that was when we really started getting our stride.

Q: 33:39

Yeah, let's just talk a little about the book, scott, like whose idea was it and how much you were involved in the, you know in the whole book, because again, this book has made you know an immaculate impression out there and all the designers you know, people who in innovation, like are you know, reading this book, even a lot of business people. So I mean, tell us your involvement in the book.

Scott: 34:08

Well, before I was a historian and this is one reason how I got into the story and before I was historian, i was the senior spokesperson for the company and worked in a group called global global brand I can't, we changed titles all the time. Anyway, basically we were responsible for doing the communications for senior level executives, the business communications, shareholder meetings, things like that, and I had Phil Knight Phil Knight in terms of one of the executives that I was supporting, so I would arrange his interviews, i would oversee the communications and I just got to know him Over time. I did so as personal PR whenever he would need that as well, and we would talk occasionally and I'd say, you know, think about writing a book. And he laughing as, oh, why would I want to do that, you know. So it was like this running joke. And then in late 2000, like nine or ten or somewhere, he called me and he asked me to come over and he said if I were going to write a book, who do you think I should work with? And at that time I think Tuesdays with Maury, i mentioned album and come out, and there was some David Halberstam, there were a number of different writers And you know. So we kicked around a bunch of different names, everybody from Mediq writers like a Rick Riley you know it's more serious a memoirist, and I said, and he said, well, what do you think about these? And I said, well, i think they'd certainly provide an interesting mix, but most of the people you're talking about are established authors of their own and they're not going to essentially just take dictation, right, they're going to. It's going to have to be some of them and their, their special sauce, if you will, mixed in with you. Otherwise they're just not. They're just going to not record what you say and rewrite it. So he thought, he thought, you know, let me think about it. And I didn't hear anything about it for a while. So I was like, well, shoot.

Scott: 36:05

So then I met my desk two years later as in, i think, november of 2012, and the phone rings and it's fell, which is a little unusual, i mean, usually his assistant calls me first and Phil's going to get a hold of you. And so I was like, sitting high, well, what can I do for it? He says, i'm coming right over, click. And I thought, okay, well, that's unusual. Again, he's come to the archives, probably still does a lot, but not, not in this way. So it's about a five minute drive, right. So I'm sitting here. I'm like it's going on here what is going on, and I had no idea. So I'd be taps on the door because even he can't get into the archives building. There's a little thing to worry about. That's how top secret is now, how secure it is. Even his badge will get in there. So I meet him, we go into, he says can we find some place to talk? So my staff is staring at me like what's going on there. So we find a small conference room and we sit down And that's when he tells me that he's decided it's time he's going to write his I think called his autobiography at that time.

Scott: 37:03

He later decided on a memoir and there's subtle differences, but it's roughly the same thing. And he said I said it's fantastic. You know I'm like what, what, what do you want to what, what do you need for me? And he said you'd mention one time you got a bunch of early Nike letters or letters from Jeff Johnson to me and vice versa. And I said Oh, yeah. And he said what else do we have? And I told him about some of the early memos and flyers, brochures and catalogs. And I said we've got some things from the University of Oregon archives at the barman that donated there. We had copies of that. Their archives related to Bill and to Blue Ribbon Sports. And I said, and I also created a created timeline And I explained to him my initial frustrations with the early Nike timelines and I said I started with new timelines from scratch.

Scott: 37:48

I Can't guarantee you with a hundred percent accuracy, because sometimes I use people's memories, but for the most part I have a timeline that I believe Captures 99% of our history in the correct order. They said can I get a copy of them? It's a sure your company, you know. So I Had a three-ring binder of a lot of those letters because I used them a lot. So I already had made photocopies and had the three-ring binder of all the letters We had, from the bill bar, my writing letters to Adi Dossler in the 50s, all the way up until the 1972, 73 period. I'd said you're, i gave him the binder and I gave him my timeline and I said thanks, this is gonna have this gonna be big help. They disappeared, you know, and so I didn't hear anything through those because I was December, so I'm through the holidays and early part of it 2000, it was a 2013.

Scott: 38:42

He calls me and he says that he's been working with a man in JR, mo ranger, who was the memoirist that helped Andre Agassi write his book open, and Andre had recommended JR to Phil And so Phil had an RGR and I don't I never was involved with them directly in terms of I don't know How much writing. I know Phil wrote a lot of the book. I don't know what JR's contribution was, because people are asking that well, didn't he ghost write it? nice, i don't know. I don't, i just don't know. But JR and I started working together because JR had a lot of questions and Then, over the following year or so, the first draft of the book came out and Phil asked me to be one of the editors on it, so I edited.

Scott: 39:25

We did end up doing that. Three times. I was involved and I think there are multiple edits, but I was involved in three different edits and then, ultimately, there was a final edit the seventh edit, i think it was came out and that was the book in 2016. So, along the way, i would help, you know, still get a snag he'd be talking about. Well, i want to talk about this, but I don't have a lot of information. Can you find out more for me? So I would go delved into our records and I pull out what I could or I'd say you know Who might know that would be so and so so I hooked them up or see what JR. So that was my, my role for the most of the book was to get the initial Journal of information that they could build on and then look for whatever they have, the weak spots or just thinking to some some grout. If you will, and I would go, then try to search that and provide.

Q: 40:12

Yeah, yeah, sounds, sounds amazing, because this is definitely one of my favorite books. Alright, alright, scott. So see that Nike's You know Nike's is known for its ground-breaking innovations. You know, in your research and exploration of the Nike archives, which era, according to you, stands out as the most Interesting in terms of design innovation, for example? or are there any lesser known or unconventional design Concepts or design innovation phase that fascinated you?

Scott: 40:47

Well, there's I mean there are a lot of things that that took forever to come to fruition. Nike shocks, you know, the morning, the spring shoe, that that was an interesting one because The idea for it was created, or was Literally by the 15 or 16 years before it came out. But the technology to create a very light and yet very flexible cushioning system didn't exist in the 80s and even well into the 90s. Now I like that story just because of the perseverance of the designers. They were like they knew it's a good idea, that it's good idea, but they couldn't come up with something That wasn't the second gigantic metal contraption or was in a way too much or was a stable enough, so that that they finally worked all those things out and brought that shoe out of 2000. And Then, at the same time, they're working on like you presto, you know which they built his t-shirts for your feet, which are very much of there. That came in small, large, extra large, you know, and it was a very, very different experience. Meanwhile, feel it later than, like you, free is coming out, you know. So there's like all these, all these forward and Developments are coming at the roughly when, about a five or seven year period Building on air, which, of course, aired at all of its iterations over the years, starting from the tiny little airbags, the visible airbag in 1987, and then they get all the way to the 360 where there's an entire Outsole or missile of air. You know so, those, those are the things where it was fascinating to watch the evolution. And then again the privilege and my role And my staff's role of being able to sit down and talk to those minds and talk to those people and and have them walk us through What it was that inspired. You know what tinker hatgill did with the air Max or with the, you know the first air, how that inspired them to do the 180 and how that inspired them to do 360. You know so it was. It was amazing to get that continuum.

Scott: 42:43

So the 90s and early 2000s for me I found it was doubly interesting because that was my. I started 92 so that I was very much A part of. I was a part of footwear design or I wasn't part of the marketing, but I was. I was still in the mix and doing a lot of things with a lot of people, so I had, like this multi-layer experience of dealing with doing these interviews.

Scott: 43:06

But yeah, the product is coming out and at the same time in the late 90s, the advertising, the marketing was just Incredible and some of the greatest ads we've ever done came out in about from the late mid 1990s. But if you let me play, and Rick Mooney oh see, hiv positive runner, all the, all the stuff we did for the 98 world cup, the 96 Olympics, 2000, i mean there was. There's some again. I don't like wish I could show them all to you right now, but The ads from from the late to 90s and early 2000s are some of the best, the night keys that were done. So there was quite a bit of just it's just amazing time period. So I would say that's probably to me and one of Mark old and eras of the company.

Q: 43:46

Yeah, and and have you ever, you know, look, look for the, for the designers? I mean this, this basically why I'm asking is that I mean, in your opinion, who are, who are the top? maybe you know three Nike designers or, like the, you know the top Nike designer for all time, according to you? Oh boy, yeah.

Scott: 44:06

I got. I get those subjective questions a lot And I always get nervous because you know I'm sure I'd be like I could list somebody. They go How would you not mention so-and-so? So I mean You gotta get Bill Barman. I mean he's these, it was the headwaters of everything. So you got to put him at least on the on the Mount Rushmore, if you will, of a. I don't know if that metaphor plays, oh, overseas or not, but you know Mount Rushmore in the United States is like the four presidents of the hill anyway, so we use that term a lot then. So he would be on there.

Scott: 44:35

But You know, tinker Hatfield certainly in the 80s, 90s and beoxys involved with the Jordans and so many, just so many shoes. But there's It's hard because there's a guy named Bruce Kilgore came over there, force one a lot of the product in the 80s, for There's apparel designers like Burke Devon. I Mean now again. Now I started, i think I go got him some. Leave you people out. Look, i guess the good thing for Nike is that's there's always been Someone or some people who have that connection, have that, that, that ideation, whether they build on previous people Or they just come with their own fresh perspective. But in terms of, in terms of saying these are the four or these are the five, godfathers, godmothers of design, i guess it's good that I can't really say that these are the, these are the four or five, because there have been so many And then they're so generous with their, their thoughts, that they literally built for me a hand building in 1999 On the Nike campus and place design in there and the creative building in like an atrium type of format, because they wanted the free flow of design ideas.

Scott: 45:48

They wanted people who are working on a tennis shoe to be nearby People working on basketball shoes and soccer shoes. They wanted that that potential for combustibility, for ideas to be shared and not have a be siloed or not. Have you know, i designed teams down there and tennis is over there for that reason, because you might be working on something for weeks That you think is gonna be great a tennis shoe and ultimately you decide it's not. But you might go put you know This might actually work out pretty well in a basketball shoe and they say a fret, you know, i didn't, you know you get me. Then you start talking about. So that that type of collaboration is very common at the company, and I think that's no reason why there are so many good designers is because he, you, you're not just you're by yourself, you're, you're building with others, and we get better ideas that way.

Q: 46:38

Yeah, yeah, that sounds right. I mean all the other people you have mentioned out. You know I've done amazing work. I still have to look up to the couple of them because you know I don't know much about them. So an Ikea has always been growing like crazy. You know, at link to Through the time I remember even mentioned that book that they've constantly been, you know, growing and you know massively. Then, then ever and on the way. A lot of designers and innovators Also had to keep up with the growth. Right, because this is when you, when you are a part of a design team, it has to go in a certain pace. What, what do you think? so how did designers and innovators, you know, keep up with companies pace of growth, for example? I know mixed you, you know he's done some statement, design and innovation, but what was frustrated with? Nike company ethos and and left, what, what, what's your take about that? Well, designers.

Scott: 47:33

I mean I'm not wired like a designer and I mean I'm a writer, you know. So I sometimes, when we bring them into the DNA that offices are building They, they walk out with inspiration that I'm like, wow, i didn't see that coming. So Designers that I worked with I think the successful ones, the one that lasted there a long time, like the Wilson Smiths and Eric A Barr The people have been there for a very long time. They adapt, they learn, they listen, they. They don't get set in their ways. That's probably deaf for a designer. As to To listen the way we've always done a type of thing And unfortunately, i think that's true in a lot of design.

Scott: 48:13

I think a lot of designers want the fresh, they want the new, but you have to stay tethered and will they say this internally and like y'all, at times It's the like what about listening to the voice of the athletes? right? So you, whatever you want to design, can look fantastic, but if it doesn't perform, if it doesn't Deliver for a high level or any level athlete, then it's not, it's not a success, at least not in Nike's eyes. So I think that grounds a lot of designers say they can have some freedom to do something creative, but the end of the day, that she was got to perform right, it's got to be a great basketball. She has got to run better And that it's limiting in a way, in a good way, and that it keeps you again grounded. You have to focus on the what matters, to make the performance product. But I think, and I think the designers that are successful are the ones that understand that and I don't think a Bruce killed where she, i don't think he would sign issue any weight, shape or form post today If you, if you hadn't retired then he did the Air Force one, but the Air Force one was groundbreaking in its day, right.

Scott: 49:23

So I really you definitely have to get like Wilson or Eric or somebody who didn't spend design for the company for you know Thousand years and they could probably ask that question to her. That I can, i'm just some sort of giving you a second. You know what I believe for them, what I would talk to them, because, because there have been some designers that have been amazing careers But then, yes, a left you creative differences. They want to do something that was maybe just something outside of what we would consider within our bounds, but there are other designers that have adapted. Like I said, wilson I think he's getting close to his 40th anniversary of Nike And he did the air, he did the up tempo And this Jordan's. You know he's used to designing shoes for for four decades.

Q: 50:02

Yeah, definitely So. in the movie air. you know it has shown that. you know, like this collaboration with Jordan has, you know, took Nike to a bigger, much bigger level. you know they've made like huge, huge profits and how people were more attracted to this brand. Do you think that that that makes sense? where Nike is today is because of that collaboration And adding one, one, one, one one. So I have one more question to this lately, in recent times, you know Jordan brand to be, to be specific, as overshadowed Nike due to, due to various reasons you know state where this hype, culture And and and some true enthusiasm noticed this and even even recently, ceo also acknowledged the same. So what's, what's? what do you think about that?

Scott: 50:57

Well, the first, the first question. So about about Jordan and the onset of the Jordan Jordan, first Air Jordan and then, of course, the product, apparel and the brand and the marketing CEO, jordan. You know so, absolutely. You can't. You can't bring 100, over 100 million dollars into a company and the span of less than a year and not say that wasn't instrumental in the company success, especially at a time in 1984 and 85 when the company was struggling after so badly misjudging the, the abrobics boom, and just completely dismissing it and essentially giving a rebuck. You know, here here's make a make, a ton of money, and we will just sit back and scratch our heads. So the Jordan brand, or the Jordan or Jordan, was definitely a pivotal moment. And then, yes, as we, as it grew and as we refined the idea of what, what does it mean for a person to become a brand, right, i mean, what is, what does that embody? and then what? then there's the challenge of well, now Jordan's retiring them and for the third time, when fully retired, the capital are.

Scott: 52:03

You know there are a lot of people are like, well, it was a good run through Jordan. And now what's the next thing? And there are people in the company even said well, we really, can we keep going on a brand, for the guy is not playing anymore And it turns out the answer was yes, so that all this is uncharted right. It wasn't like, well, let's do it so. So, yes, so the Jordan brand forever changed the direction of coming and also, you know, there's the halo effect of what we did for the Jordan brand you can do for later for Toby and for LeBron, for athletes and other sports. You know, maybe not certainly not to that level, because you can like sometimes capture lightning in a bottle once, but it certainly provided some blueprints on how to be successful as other athletes and other brands, i'm sad.

Q: 52:49

So the second after question was yeah yeah, it was basically, you know, in recent times, jordan been overshadowing Nike as a brand, and even the CCO acknowledge, acknowledge the same. I mean, and it's not just because of the design, it's maybe, you know, the streetwear culture, the, the hype culture which which has been going around. So what's your take on that moving forward as a brand?

Scott: 53:17

I have less knowledge of just because they're that's my been gone for almost two years and things change so much. But yeah, in general they've had a Nike basketball and even commerce and then, because Nike owns commerce and Jordan have had a friendly but somewhat competitive rivalry. I don't know the inner workings of how you know, college basketball player X ends up a Jordan athlete versus a Nike, but I don't know, and they're very close, you know. I'm sure they're. Obviously there are people know this. They've never shared it with me And there's got to be some understanding. Some people within the company know these two brands and, again, commerce to a third less extent. So there has to, there have to be conversations that I can't imagine. Certainly Nike is not bidding against Jordan for this new athlete, right, that would be foolish. So there must be something that they are discussing internally about why this college player is a Jordan athlete versus a Nike basketball athlete.

Scott: 54:21

But I wish, even if probably, even if I knew, i probably shouldn't tell you, because that's kind of the sauce, but it's helpful to be competitive, i think, and Jordan the brand has as it become, for a while was its own sub brand and now it's part of the Nike brand. Again, it was a sub brand. I mean, it's kind of bastard. I really like the Tiger Woods when he was in his heyday with his brand. Is it a subsidiary of Nike? Is it own brand? You know, as it is an apartment within Nike, so things change.

Scott: 54:52

It's a very fluid company and a fluid business, but I think for right now, having Jordan essentially represent the pinnacle, that seems like that's there. They're very thoughtful about what athletes becomes part of the Jordan family. Whether you want to call it elevated I'm sure my phone friends and Nike basketball would be not happy to have me referring to that as elevating to another level But you know, i think the sort of like that's the feeling. As you're a Jordan athlete, you're special, plus one type of thing. I don't know if I get to the question but yeah, that's fine, that's fine.

Q: 55:33

And do you think, was it? was it Phil, all the way that he was taking he was doing you know right thing at the right time And you know he was taking or maybe it was like the core of the brand he was building, that that it was kind of comparatively easy to scale And, according to you, who actually took Nike to where it is from a CEO perspective? you know, was it was at Phil or do you think, like it was someone else less known?

Scott: 56:02

It was well. I mean Phil was the CEO from you know the inception. I mean even when Bill and Phil were creating their partnership in the 60s, it was a two men but it was 51% fell 49% bill, and that was a bill borrowings insistence because the original discussion was they'd be 50 50. And Bill just said that just means every time we disagree we'll just know be will be at loggerheads, so be nobody making a decision. So he was comfortable at letting Phil have that, that extra percentage and essentially breaking the ties. And you know there's a lot of reasons for that. Bill was essentially a track and field coach, right, he wasn't, he didn't want to be a business mogul. That was not his goal And I think that in that enabled Phil that over the years to be in the decision maker and to make the final call. So, yeah, it was Phil's decision.

Scott: 56:53

Again, with the great people you know, he was very adept at finding the right people, regardless of their backgrounds. I mean Jeff Johnson was a, was an art major, i believe, and I mean they were the lot of the original Nike folks were lawyers and accountants, right, i mean, they were not the way to not think of even how to product designer and actual trained product designer until the early 80s. So they all just had a knack for coming at products or challenges with an unique solution. And then again he's very good at understanding potential and athletes He's he's been the one that he was on a 12 Nike kind of thing in the sign Pete Samperas, you know they are. So we already have agacies like, yeah, but Pete Samperas can be something too. But then they finally realized he shouldn't be our, you know Phil. So they signed Pete Samperas. That worked out pretty well, you know.

Scott: 57:46

So Phil has just this innate understanding of sports and competition and analytics and accounting is certainly a benefit because he also understands the patients and the building over time and investment instead of chasing after the latest fad. It's never, rarely done Nike's thing. That's been other brands, to their detriment and to their success. But like he's been more thoughtful, more considered, more planning for the future. That's very much the mind of an accountant. So I would say Phil's, phil's imprint on the company is deep and it wasn't I mean he stepped down this meeting, i'm sorry In 2004, as CEO silver made his chairman of the board And you know he's already laid down pretty much the foundation for the company. It certainly grown under Mark Parker and now under John Donahoe, but the foundation was already laid. So I think they're just. They're certainly dealing with newer issues in the 20s and they were not really on the radar back then, but they're doing it on with the fundamentals that Phil introduced.

Q: 58:55

Yeah, wow, i mean. Pretty good insight there, scott. What do you think? I mean? see, everyone, everyone loves this brand, everyone. You know, like, throughout these, throughout these years, throughout the, you know, last number of decades Nike has been, has done, you know everything, right, i mean, when it comes to marketing, a lot of people are, you know, look forward to what they've done in terms of their spec ads, you know, and then the advertisements that they've made, you know, from design to to their, you know, their copywriting approach. What do you think, as a, as a brand, they've done right and and what like? what's that like? you know, what are those? maybe, maybe it's there that the principles they have, or or maybe they have a cause that that you know, that has made them what they are, because it's, i would definitely consider, nike is one of the most important brands in the world. What's your? what do you think about?

Scott: 59:49

Well, i want to argue with you on that. You know, again, this question came up a lot for me because our people trying to understand as almost as if you can, you can boil it down to like an essence or a spray, like you know, you get it. Yeah, i mean so. But in 1977, right going back all the way back in the 70s there was a day when Rob Strasser and early Nike executives featured in the movie air. He was frustrated with the growing Simon at the time like, well, i don't know if I want to go to Korea, i don't want to be. And so people that before that had just been told this is what needs to be done, and they hate to say it, they just did it, you know. So Rob outed out these 10 principles on his typewriter and photocopied them and taped them up on walls, they put on people's desks and those were essentially evolved over time into what became the Nike Maxims And those are still very much a part of the company. So the company has taken pains over the years to, as best it can, identify that ethereal culture, heritage, ethos, whatever you want to call it, and it has morphed over time. But the essentials, the core of authenticity, teamwork, performance, they call them different things, but the heart of it is still there. And so by staying true to that, even though the world changes social media, athletes, everything's a lot of things that have changed over the years but the central core of people wanting to perform, to compete, to do their best, you know, again, we've also had, we've had ads for like there is no finish line, also in 1977, which you know the sentiment that you just did a great job. But you know. But again, the key, the people are really competitive. We look at that and not be like, well, i'm done. I mean they'll be thinking of themselves. You know, if I could just do this, i could get, i could break my PR and my in the 5,000, or I could, i could raise my batting average or whatever. Just, you may be batting 347, but you could bat 350, right, it's that, oh, there is no finish line. It's very much a part of the Nike mentality over the years Again, maybe articulated in different ways. So so that more so again, over time, the nineties have changed. It's 2001,.

Scott: 1:02:15

The full 11 maxims have rolled out this. The mission statement has changed. The mission statement forever was to be the world's leading sports and fitness company. Well, check done, you know. And what does that even mean? Right, i mean. So it's like saying my goal is to be a 62 year old white guy. Well, yay, you know I am. But what does that even mean? You know I've achieved my goal.

Scott: 1:02:37

So that's when they created the much more complicated slash inspirational mission statement. It bring innovation and inspiration to every athlete in the world. And the asterisk on an athlete for a quote from Bill Byron, which is if you have a body, you're an athlete. So essentially, what Nike is saying is they want to bring in for innovation and inspiration every person on the planet. Because you have a body, you may perform in different ways, your body may have limitations, but you can still perform whatever that means to you, whatever that inspires you. That's a very open ended mission statement And it now allows for a lot of interpretation and ability to go in many different directions. So Nike has given itself that freedom. It's a freedom and a challenge, right? Because it is highly competitive. So, highly competitive company. You almost never see the same ad idea twice. So it permeates wide in Kennedy, which is also we didn't talk about that, but wide in Kennedy's influence cannot be understated. I mean our county overstated. I mean there was so many important things that the wide in Kennedy has brought from this advertising perspective that has either enhanced or sometimes taken that kind of brand new direction. So we've just been very.

Scott: 1:03:53

I don't see a fortune because that implies luck. There is some luck, but it's certainly. It's just a people who are passionate about what they're doing, having some freedom to experiment and try things They have not been done before, without the fear of being held accountable. They're always accountable. You know what I mean, not being. I mean DN wide, greatest minds I've ever met. On his desk he had a little two-word thing that just said fail harder, because that means you're trying, learn from it. Don't keep just failing all the time. You know, just don't like it. That's a and Nike had that same idea.

Scott: 1:04:34

The same thought was it's okay to fail, learn from it, don't fail foolishly, but learn from it, don't hide it, you know. And so when you, when you're told that, when you're given that and then we, the DNA, would provide examples of that It's empowering for a new designer, a new marketing person not to feel like they have to be gold all the time. That's exhausting. First off, it's impossible. And secondly, it's exhausting to think that you'd have to live up to this standard. That is so high. You're either gonna burn out or you're gonna become jaded. And so we're like, yes, shoot for high results, but did you know that this happened?

Scott: 1:05:12

Or the goal shoot that everybody looks at in 1996, olympics of Michael Johnson War was an amazing moment, but it came from a terrible moment in 1993, when Quincy Watts's shoe delaminated on the final turn of the World Championships in Stuttgart and his shoe fell apart. So and Phil Knight called it one of the worst days at Nike yesterday because we failed an athlete on the highest stage at a key moment, and that can't happen again. And so that then began a three year odyssey that led to the goal shoot being created in Atlanta in 1996. And those stories when people and designers hear that they feel much more connected and empowered because they realize that it's not just oh, and then a designer came up but let's just make a goal shoot, oh, great idea, let's get Michael to wear, because I'm like, who thinks of that? Who would even do that? Well, that happened over a process And because of bad stuff that happened.

Scott: 1:06:09

That, i think, allows new designers to realize that there are plenty of opportunities to be creative, that you don't have to just hit the home run every time, and if you don't have that stress you know I'm not a designer, but again, i was a writer. If you had to tell me that everything I write has to be Pulitzer Prize winning, i'd be like I can't think of this, not doable.

Q: 1:06:33

Yeah, you mentioned that you're a writer, scott. Number of times Are we expecting a book from you or something? Tell us something about your plans moving ahead in your future. What are you working on? I'm sure I mean you can't be. You made it sound very simple that you are having a retirement life, but I'm sure a person like you is onto something for sure. Tell us about that.

Scott: 1:07:00

Well, i mean, yes, my sons both have been adjoining me into writing stories And I have to be honest, there were sometimes because I wasn't there to start for my entire career at Nike, right. So I was there for almost let's see, maybe two to about 12 years. I was doing other things And there were these almost meta moments where I'm writing about something and I realized that the best person to comment about what I'm writing about is me, right, you know, like the 96 Olympics and what we're doing with athletes there. I was in charge of the athletes doing events and experiences in Atlanta, like Michael Johnson, not the racing itself, but the Nike events. So sometimes I'm like, well, i'll just quote myself. You know, maybe it's even journalistically, not culture, but I was like I don't know who else to ask this, i'm the one in those exams.

Scott: 1:07:51

So I have thought about reading or writing my own thoughts because it's a little challenging, because I was an employee of Nike and I was a historian for Nike And so when I was interviewing people I was doing a paid by Nike, so technically they own those interviews. So I have been told nicely that anything that I would do like in terms of that would be proprietary to Nike. I've also been told by others that I can write about what I did and what I remember. So I couldn't just and if I were to write about, i couldn't just say and here's how the Nike Cortez was created, because that's owned by Nike I could talk about my interview of Jeff Johnson, who said you know, so it's a little squishy and I'm not waiting in there. I don't have many scripted, you know, but I am jotting things down. It's just fun, like even the LinkedIn things that you mentioned earlier. That's just been fun because, first off, there's a character limit. So you should all think, linkedin, if you're following me, that they put a character limit, because I keep saying, if you're just going on, on, on, on, on, on, on, on, on, on, on, on, on, on, on, on, on, on, on, on, on, on, on on. So I was just thinking, yeah, you guys generate more content in LinkedIn, but it's easier if it's. It's a way of saying yes, because that's what I really like so much, because my reminding me just if you know what type of YouTube you're in, youtube REINF? 터. It's a really big entertainer Because I always neatly interested in this information.

Scott: 1:09:28

I've got the numbers to prove it. So that's why I'm hoping that they can start getting this. I think it'd be more authoritative that they would be able to tell these stories, but in the meantime I'm going to. So I do enjoy LinkedIn, but I'm also. I'm also like, yeah, to your point. I am 62 years old, my wife hasn't retired yet, so, you know, can only walk the dog for so much the day before she's 13. So she's going to like are we still walking? you know, much longer. So yeah, i'm doing a little things, little projects. Consult with a couple of smaller one crows franchise, a couple of other smaller companies about, about how to archive and how to get started with our coming. Usually, when they find out what's entailed and the cost and how much, it's not just matter putting stuff on a shelf, you know then they sometimes I don't hear from people after that. It's a big undertaking, especially for a larger company or larger sports company or a franchise, because you can't just you have to curate and that that requires a lot of time.

Q: 1:10:28

Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's right. More and more power to use God, though I mean, i would you know it's. I think it can be an interesting idea. I think it has a lot and a lot of potential. you know, looking at Nike from your perspective, and again, if I, if, even if I can play like a small part of it, i'd love to in your journey.

Scott: 1:10:49

Well, i mean, i love the. There's that old thing about those who don't learn from history or doom to repeat it, type of thing, But that and that's the negative side What I like to tell people is, especially for a company like Nike or other companies that have a distinct culture and have great stories to tell, either again, externally to the people who like their product, or just because they want the people on whose shoulders you're now standing to understand how you got on those shoulders. It's just a privilege, it's just a, it's just an amazing privilege to be able to sit down like I'm doing with you. I did that probably close to a thousand times I think every probably a thousand, if not more people over my 17 years in a role And I would get the most amazing stories and people were so comfortable just sitting down, just talking on like we're doing and just sharing some of their I won't say intimate, but sharing some of the things that they were so kind of raw moments And sometimes I would literally they literally say you need to turn the recording device off and I'd turn it off and then they would tell me some more amazing stories, but they were either sensitive or stuff like I can't really do anything with that publicly, you know, and then we turn it back on. I said why? you know, in my mind I'm thinking why are you telling me this? You know, i saw part of me. I felt like I was almost becoming like a therapist for some people. They can, they could share their thoughts And I did get that a lot in the last few years of the company.

Scott: 1:12:16

Those people call me up and you know, i don't. I just I keep do this and I don't understand. And you know we don't seem to have. We talk about the culture, but in my department we don't really do that, and so I'd have to just listen and say well, you know, we, you can't have a company in 2021, when I retired, with 75,000 employees in I don't know how many countries just cannot have the same environment that I enjoyed in 1992, when there were 2,500 people on the Nike campus, or in 1973, when they're like 27 people or whatever the number was. It's just, it's just not possible. So my advice was always create it.

Scott: 1:12:57

If there are things about Nike's history, nike's ethos, nike's culture that you have always been inspired by or gravitated towards, find ways within your subgroup, your department, your, your teams, the people in your neighborhood type of thing, and emulate those, embrace those You may. It may only go as far as you know your, your, your area and your and your one part of your building. Maybe it it spreads a little bit further. Maybe there are other people doing the same thing in their other groups and maybe they they sort of they bleed into each other and blame each other. That's the only way it's going to happen. You know, john Downing or Mark Parker at Phil and Nike just can't stand up in front of a group and say Hey, do all, everybody do this. You know everybody live this way or everybody talk this way. It's just not. It's never been the way it's worked. So it was. I was always feeling like I was partly historian and part therapist.

Q: 1:13:54

Well, very inspiring, scott. I mean again. I mean that. That takes us to the end of the podcast. I wish you all the best, and thanks again for a, for a, you know, for an insightful and a very inspiring conversation. I hope to keep in touch.

Scott: 1:14:11

Well, you're one of them. I love talking to you. Today, again, we didn't really talk about air per se, but I would tell people if you want to know the true, actual story about how, like, michael Jordan signed with Nike, please get this book that Rob Strasser's widow, julie Strasser, jb Strasser, wrote. Oh Nike, the unauthorized biography that by far since I can't share what we, we we captured in DNA, because we capture pretty much the same story. If you're curious, that is where you'll find out what actually happened, not the most sleep fictional version that's in there.